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Old 12-25-2008, 12:54 AM
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what counts as designer denim?

What distinguishes certain brands as being designer? Is it just based on price? Cuz I've seen jeans by guess, armani exchange, etc where the jeans retail in the $100-$200 price range but I wouldn't consider then even remotely close to being designer denim.
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Old 12-25-2008, 01:20 AM
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depends on the look on quality to me. guess and lucky are better than your average jean but the quality, wash and stitch aren't in the same league as diesel, SFAM, WR etc. some brands like monarchy or mek are kind of hard to make up your mind about. then again, who cares what label something carries. if you like it, sport it
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:36 AM
 
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Designer denim is Dior Homme MIJ, Hermes, Marc Jacob selvedge jeans, the rest are just for people who don't want to go to the trouble of raw jeans (me included) or want everyone to think they are wearing designer and is facilitated with the ostentatious pocket designs of some brands (me excluded)

Last edited by buddha; 12-25-2008 at 07:49 AM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:41 AM
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IMO it's whatever is better quality. For example: better fabric or fabric blends, washes, etc.
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buddha View Post
Designer denim is Dior Homme MIJ, Hermes, Marc Jacob selvedge jeans, the rest are just for people who don't want to go to the trouble of raw jeans (me included) or want everyone to think they are wearing designer and is facilitate with the ostentatious pocket designs of some brands (me excluded)
super lame post here.
so.. SFAM, True Religion, Rock & Republic, etc.. these are not considered Designer Denim?

o-tayyy.. wut ever.



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Old 12-25-2008, 07:47 AM
 
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technically deisgner would imply premium quality denim, it is commonly accepted that denim fabric made in japan is the premier choice.

And we all know that is not what is used in RR, TR SFAM etc. As such I would not consider the Made In Italy Dior Homme jeans to be designer either.


Don't get me wrong I own just as much RR and TR as anyone here, but I don't walk around thinker it is "designer"
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:52 AM
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Okay stupid question, Buddah in your opinon, what makes designer better then premium denim?
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:55 AM
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Originally Posted by buddha View Post
technically deisgner would imply premium quality denim, it is commonly accepted that denim fabric made in japan is the premier choice.

And we all know that is not what is used in RR, TR SFAM etc. As such I would not consider the Made In Italy Dior Homme jeans to be designer either.


Don't get me wrong I own just as much RR and TR as anyone here, but I don't walk around thinker it is "designer"
Pfft.. no SFAM?
lame X 2


just teasin' you now



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Old 12-25-2008, 07:56 AM
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Pfft.. no SFAM?
lame X 2


just teasin' you now
x 3 because he didn't mention Diesel
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Old 12-25-2008, 07:58 AM
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TR does in fact use japanese denim sometimes
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:01 AM
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Originally Posted by nnnola View Post
super lame post here.
so.. SFAM, True Religion, Rock & Republic, etc.. these are not considered Designer Denim?

o-tayyy.. wut ever.
First off. I think this thread should be titled "what counts as PREMIUM denim?"
I've actually pondered the same, but 'designer' denim technically is just any pair of jeans purchased at a designer retailer or distributor. So armani, guess, etc. would all apply. I actually think it's a bit of a downplay to put those brands in the same group as the ones listed above as far as denim quality to be honest.

Secondly, Agreed. WAY lame. Albeit ostentatious, these brands do provide superior craftsmanship than the average 'designer' denim brand.

Where the denim comes from, IMO, is pretty irrelevant. I do agree that most denim distributors that use Japanese denim are considered to be of premier quality but I don't think denim made in Japan is automatically considered 'premium' and anything else just falls short.

I know I'm a total fanboy but, True Religion does have a few rare pairs made of japanese denim. They also have some Raw. Just because, admittedly, they can be very showy at times, it doesn't mean the craftsmanship should be overlooked.

And HERMES? Come now, anyone who buys DENIM from hermes, louis vuitton, etc.. is buying JUST for the brand. PERIOD. I respect that their leather craftsmanship highly coveted and undoubtedly premium but these brands wouldn't know a damn thing about a quality pair of jeans IMO. Leave the denim to the denim masters and the leather to the leather craftsman.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:01 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LiLi0623 View Post
Okay stupid question, Buddah in your opinon, what makes designer better then premium denim?
The quality of japanese selvedge denim is unmatched. It is not that difficult to make a soft pair of jeans, throw some lyrca spandex or whatever and boom, the material is soft. But jeans that are shapely enough to capture the originally intended silhouette of the designer is an art form that is mastered by the japanese from centuries of experimentation. If Hedi Slimane had to design his dior jeans with the material used for TR or RR, chances are they would not be the same.

That said I have two pairs of Dior MIJ 19cm and neither get very much ussage...my two dozen or so other jeans do.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:03 AM
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TR does in fact use japanese denim sometimes
yeah.. what she said!



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Old 12-25-2008, 08:06 AM
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Ok so, i live in Japan. Are all their denim suppose to be good quality? Because i've gone to a lot of the shops here and not all of their jeans are good quality or good washes IMO. And just for the record, i'm not arguing, i am just curious.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:06 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRnewB3592 View Post
First off. I think this thread should be titled "what counts as PREMIUM denim?"
I've actually pondered the same, but 'designer' denim technically is just any pair of jeans purchased at a designer retailer or distributor. So armani, guess, etc. would all apply. I actually think it's a bit of a downplay to put those brands in the same group as the ones listed above as far as denim quality to be honest.

Secondly, Agreed. WAY lame. Albeit ostentatious, these brands do provide superior craftsmanship than the average 'designer' denim brand.

Where the denim comes from, IMO, is pretty irrelevant. I do agree that most denim distributors that use Japanese denim are considered to be of premier quality but I don't think denim made in Japan is automatically considered 'premium' and anything else just falls short.

I know I'm a total fanboy but, True Religion does have a few rare pairs made of japanese denim. They also have some Raw. Just because, admittedly, they can be very showy at times, it doesn't mean the craftsmanship should be overlooked.

And HERMES? Come now, anyone who buys DENIM from hermes, louis vuitton, etc.. is buying JUST for the brand. PERIOD. I respect that their leather craftsmanship highly coveted and undoubtedly premium but these brands wouldn't know a damn thing about a quality pair of jeans IMO. Leave the denim to the denim masters and the leather to the leather craftsman.
Do you think when you get above $250 there is really that match difference in 'craftsmanship'? You take a needle and sew the jeans. You think TR somehow has better equipment than a big fashion house like Dior?

The biggest distinguishing factors are

1.) design, so Hedi Slimane VS Jeff Lubel (sp?), Michael Ball, and the two dudes who got fucked from SFAM and started COH.

2.) fabric itself. Japanese Selvedge vs good ole american cotton
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by LiLi0623 View Post
Ok so, i live in Japan. Are all their denim suppose to be good quality? Because i've gone to a lot of the shops here and not all of their jeans are good quality or good washes IMO. And just for the record, i'm not arguing, i am just curious.
No, that's not what I meant, just as not all american made denim (gap, guess, lucky vs TR RR SFAM) is homogenous, neither is Japanese denim. I was specifically referencing Dior MIJ (made in Japan) jeans
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:08 AM
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Ok, so it's Japanese Selvedge not just any Japanese denim. I am new to all this raw denim stuff. I wonder where i would find it here...

Quote:
Originally Posted by buddha View Post
No, that's not what I meant, just as not all american made denim (gap, guess, lucky vs TR RR SFAM) is homogenous, neither is Japanese denim. I was specifically referencing Dior MIJ (made in Japan) jeans
OOh i see.....i think
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:10 AM
 
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Originally Posted by idalis View Post
TR does in fact use japanese denim sometimes
I'm not sure why, but I have tried on that RAW wash, also the other one that is kind of like raw, body rinse or rinse? And both don't have the unique properties that other MIJ has (ie, smooth and soft but still rigid and crisp, I know those are exact opposites, it is kind of hard to describe)
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:17 AM
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I made no direct comparison to Dior and TR or any other brands. I did compare the denim brands that most on this site would consider 'Premium' to common designer brands like armani and guess. And yes, I do believe True Religion has substantially better quality than jeans from amani, guess, and the standard commercial levi. (not vintage levis or Capital E) Having owned all of the above, I wouldn't be insist on TR over these brands if the difference couldn't be seen and felt.

I will revoke my Comment on HERMES SPECIFICALLY. I was not aware they crafted selvedge denim. But, IMO, for the price of Hermes selvedge, why not go for a less 'label driven' brand and buy something like JAPANblue? If one is going to pride them self on having 'authentic selvedge denim' then who really cares about the label anyway? What does a label patch that says "Dior, Hermes, Marc Jacobs" etc. Have to do with anything if they are all made from the same japanese denim fabric?

Japan Blue

Well-renowed (in JAPAN) craftsmen of premier quality selvedge denim.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:19 AM
 
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You still miss the point, selvedge is necessary to properly disply the fit intended by the designers.

But the ultimate goal is the fit.

A lot of these japanese designer have jeans whose thighs are way too loose (which actually looks ok when it is selvedge since it stands a little better)

PS No to Evisu (sorry had to get that in there)

Last edited by buddha; 12-25-2008 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:24 AM
 
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PS I don't know if you are confusing AX with armani, but although I agree TR is better quality then guess and standard Levi 501, they are not better quality then Armani
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:26 AM
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Originally Posted by buddha View Post
You still miss the point, selvedge is necessary to properly disply the fit intended by the designers.

But the ultimate goal is the fit.

A lot of these japanese designer have jeans whose thighs are way too loose (which actually looks ok when it is selvedge since it stands a little better)

PS No to Evisu (sorry had to get that in there)
Like you said, "You take a needle and sew the jeans". It's that simple. You honestly believe that these renowned 'denim masters', as they call themselves, don't know how to take in the thigh on a pair of jeans? Fit is a matter of preference. You will find that a lot of Japanese brands that are considered to be premier have cuts like these because that's how the majority of japanese denim enthusiast want their jeans to fit.

It's not that Hermes, marc jacobs, and dior, fit BETTER necessarily, Just differently.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by buddha View Post
PS I don't know if you are confusing AX with armani, but although I agree TR is better quality then guess and standard Levi 501, they are not better quality then Armani
Yes I was, calling Armani Exchange 'armani' for short. I assumed the audience would know what I meant. My mistake I guess. I've never tried the actual Armani brand's denim so i will revoke any making any comparisons. TR to AX, though is laughable.
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:32 AM
 
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^
point taken...I guess from the POV of Lil John Evisu > Dior
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Old 12-25-2008, 08:39 AM
 
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Thats the other thing that I never understood:

Japanese men can get away with looser thighs for Evisu since they are wearing size 28-29 waist, so other the cut is loose it is not too bad.

But sz 36 hanging below your ass + loose cut = not a good combo
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