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Old 12-18-2008, 10:34 AM
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Huh....more politics.....

Gay leaders furious with Obama - Yahoo! News

Barack Obama’s choice of a prominent evangelical minister to deliver the invocation at his inauguration is a conciliatory gesture toward social conservatives who opposed him in November, but it is drawing fierce challenges from a gay rights movement that – in the wake of a gay marriage ban in California – is looking for a fight.

Rick Warren, the senior pastor of Saddleback Church in southern California, opposes abortion rights but has taken more liberal stances on the government role in fighting poverty, and backed away from other evangelicals’ staunch support for economic conservatism. But it’s his support for the California constitutional amendment to ban same-sex marriage that drew the most heated criticism from Democrats Wednesday.

“Your invitation to Reverend Rick Warren to deliver the invocation at your inauguration is a genuine blow to LGBT Americans,” the president of Human Rights Campaign, Joe Solomonese, wrote Obama Wednesday. “[W]e feel a deep level of disrespect when one of architects and promoters of an anti-gay agenda is given the prominence and the pulpit of your historic nomination.”

The rapid, angry reaction from a range of gay activists comes as the gay rights movement looks for an opportunity to flex its political muscle. Last summer gay groups complained, but were rebuffed by Obama, when an “ex-gay” singer led Obama’s rallies in South Carolina. And many were shocked last month when voters approved the California ban.

“There is a lot of energy and there’s a lot of anger and I think people are wanting to direct it somewhere,” Solomonese told Politico.

The selection of Warren to preside at the inauguration is not a surprise move, but it is a mirror image of President Bill Clinton’s early struggles with issues of gay rights. Obama has worked, and at times succeeded, to bridge the gap between Democrats and evangelical Christians, who form a solid section of the Republican base.

Obama opposes same-sex marriage, but also opposed the California constitutional amendment Warren backed. In selecting Warren, he is choosing to reach out to conservatives on a hot-button social issue, at the cost of antagonizing gay voters who overwhelmingly supported him.

Clinton, by contrast, drew early praise from gay rights activists by pressing to allow openly gay soldiers to serve, only to retreat into the “don’t ask, don’t tell” compromise that pleased few.

The reaction Wednesday in gay rights circles was universally negative.

“It’s a huge mistake,” said California gay rights activist Rick Jacobs, who chairs the state’s Courage Campaign. “He’s really the wrong person to lead the president into office.

“Can you imagine if he had a man of God doing the invocation who had deliberately said that Jews are not going to be saved and therefore should be excluded from what’s going on in America? People would be up in arms,” he said.

The editor of the Washington Blade, Kevin Naff, called the choice “Obama’s first big mistake.”

“His presence on the inauguration stand is a slap in the faces of the millions of GLBT voters who so enthusiastically supported him,” Naff wrote, referring to gay, lesbian, bisexual and transgendered people. “This tone-deafness to our concerns must not be tolerated. We have just endured eight years of endless assaults on our dignity and equality from a president beholden to bigoted conservative Christians. The election was supposed to have ended that era. It appears otherwise.”

Other liberal groups chimed in.

“Rick Warren gets plenty of attention through his books and media appearances. He doesn’t need or deserve this position of honor,” said the president of People for the American Way, Kathryn Kolbert, who described Warren as “someone who has in recent weeks actively promoted legalized discrimination and denigrated the lives and relationships of millions of Americans.”

Warren’s spokeswoman did not respond to a message seeking comment, but he has tried to blend personal tolerance with doctrinal disapproval of homosexuality.

“I have many gay friends, I’ve eaten dinner in gay homes. No church has probably done more for people with AIDS than Saddleback Church,” he said in a recent interview with BeliefNet.

In the same interview, he compared the “redefiniton of a marrige” to include gay marriage to legitimizing incest, child abuse, and polygamy.

Obama’s move may deepen some apparent distance between him among gays and lesbians, one of the very few core Democratic groups among whom his performance was worse than John Kerry’s in 2004. Exit polls suggested that John McCain won 27% of the gay vote in November, up four points from Bush’s 2004 tally – even as almost all other voters slid toward Obama.

But despite the symbolism of picking Warren, Obama is likely to shift several substantive policy areas in directions that will please gay voters and their political leaders, including a pledge to end “don’t ask, don’t tell” in military service.

And some gay activists were holding out hope that they would either persuade Obama to dump Warren or Warren to change his mind.

“Rick Warren did a real disservice to gay families in California and across the country by casually supporting our continued exclusion from marriage,” said the founder of the pro-same sex marriage Freedom to Marry, Evan Wolfson. “I hope in the spirit of the new era that’s dawning, he will open his heart and speak to all Americans about inclusion and our country’s commitment to equality.”


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I thought all the Obama supporters said that Obama was NOT opposed to gay-marriage
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:36 AM
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Well, you can't please everyone. I am just glad its not Rev. Wright. Maybe Obama is more conservative than we all thought!
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by lawgal2002 View Post
Well, you can't please everyone. I am just glad its not Rev. Wright. Maybe Obama is more conservative than we all thought!
I was thinking the same thing- you can't please everyone. No way.

But I too am a bit happy because we need a uniter not a divider now, and by bridging the gap between liberals and conversatives, we just might see real positive work done in this administration.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:52 AM
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This is a rather confusing move on his part, unless the goal is simply to throw religious conservatives off the liberal scent In that case it makes perfect sense lol
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:08 AM
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At this point in time, most politicians are willing to appease the anti-gay marriage movement because, sadly, the majority of this country is anti-gay marriage. I think Prop 8 proved that. I'd bet that, behind the scenes, Obama is for gay marriage but to come out and say that would have been political suicide. He is way too liberal to be truly against gay marriage.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:10 AM
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Originally Posted by shelleysbitch View Post
I thought all the Obama supporters said that Obama was NOT opposed to gay-marriage
If I'm not mistaken it was common knowledge that Obama was not opposed to CIVIL UNIONS between gay couples, but he indeed made it known he was opposed to marriage.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:45 AM
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what a surprise, a sellout politician backing insane Christian pieces of shit who are against all the Constitution stands for.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:57 AM
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^ Exactly. Some people are just more equal than others.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:11 PM
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obama.. how could you
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:28 PM
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At this point in time, most politicians are willing to appease the anti-gay marriage movement because, sadly, the majority of this country is anti-gay marriage. I think Prop 8 proved that. I'd bet that, behind the scenes, Obama is for gay marriage but to come out and say that would have been political suicide. He is way too liberal to be truly against gay marriage.
Agreed, no matter how he personally feels on the matter he is not going to support gay marriage when the majority is against it.
Dian I remember pointing out in the debate thread that Obama is not in favor of gay marriage and some people were surprised to hear this. I think some Obama voters may have just assumed he was in favor of gay marriage without doing any research.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:30 PM
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At this point in time, most politicians are willing to appease the anti-gay marriage movement because, sadly, the majority of this country is anti-gay marriage. I think Prop 8 proved that. I'd bet that, behind the scenes, Obama is for gay marriage but to come out and say that would have been political suicide. He is way too liberal to be truly against gay marriage.
Because we all know, an educated black family man with kids is generally pro-gay marriage
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:31 PM
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I read online from a source...I can't remember what, but it said Obama supported gay marriages

I don't see how he can be so "left" and not support it?

I don't remember you posting that, but then again I didn't read ALL of the debate thread, it was just too long....
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:36 PM
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[QUOTE=Dana;1273966]At this point in time, most politicians are willing to appease the anti-gay marriage movement because, sadly, the majority of this country is anti-gay marriage. I think Prop 8 proved that. I'd bet that, behind the scenes, Obama is for gay marriage but to come out and say that would have been political suicide. He is way too liberal to be truly against gay marriage.[/QUOTE]

So....how are we supposed to "research" what he was for if he was "behind the scenes" for it...all politicians are liars even if you want to call it "political suicide" or not, that's just sugar coating it

I'm rather sick of "political moves" and crap like that, I wish they would just do what is RIGHT.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:38 PM
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Well in the debates and all interviews that I've seen he specifically says that he is against gay marriage/pro civil union, but hopes that his daughter's generation may be able to turn the tide someday. If he is behind the scenes for it, he isn't making that opinion public.
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Old 12-18-2008, 12:44 PM
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I usually stay away from these threads but, he is having another minister(can't remember who) say prayer the same day at a different event that is for gay marriage. There's no way you can ever please everyone but I am glad to see him trying even though I disagree with using someone who spreads hate/fear to divide people.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Dana View Post
At this point in time, most politicians are willing to appease the anti-gay marriage movement because, sadly, the majority of this country is anti-gay marriage. I think Prop 8 proved that. I'd bet that, behind the scenes, Obama is for gay marriage but to come out and say that would have been political suicide. He is way too liberal to be truly against gay marriage.
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Originally Posted by shelleysbitch View Post
So....how are we supposed to "research" what he was for if he was "behind the scenes" for it...all politicians are liars even if you want to call it "political suicide" or not, that's just sugar coating it

I'm rather sick of "political moves" and crap like that, I wish they would just do what is RIGHT.
Agreed with both of you.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by shelleysbitch View Post
I read online from a source...I can't remember what, but it said Obama supported gay marriages

I don't see how he can be so "left" and not support it?

I don't remember you posting that, but then again I didn't read ALL of the debate thread, it was just too long....
Its really no different from the "devout" Catholic Kennedy's supporting abortion rights.

I am "right wing" but support gay marriage, or gay "unions" rather. I believe in LOVE regardless of the sex of the person.

Just saying it is possible and is a move in a bipartisan direction.
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Old 12-18-2008, 01:07 PM
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Its really no different from the "devout" Catholic Kennedy's supporting abortion rights.

I am "right wing" but support gay marriage, or gay "unions" rather. I believe in LOVE regardless of the sex of the person.

Just saying it is possible and is a move in a bipartisan direction.


Yes but you and I are more "middle" right wing....he is obviously far left...

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Old 12-18-2008, 01:28 PM
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one can be a Catholic and support abortion rights.
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:22 PM
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I told you the guy was shady.
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:25 PM
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They all are.
Shelley, maybe you should throw your shoes at him.
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Old 12-18-2008, 02:25 PM
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one can be a Catholic and support abortion rights.
The Catholic church does not support abortion in any circumstances.
It believes that abortion is a grave sin, and has always taught so.

In 1995 Pope John Paul II declared that the Church’s teaching on abortion "is unchanged and unchangeable. Therefore, by the authority which Christ conferred upon Peter and his successors . . . I declare that direct abortion, that is, abortion willed as an end or as a means, always constitutes a grave moral disorder, since it is the deliberate killing of an innocent human being. This doctrine is based upon the natural law and upon the written word of God, is transmitted by the Church’s tradition and taught by the ordinary and universal magisterium. No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church" (Evangelium Vitae 62).

As recently as 2007 Pope Benedict stated that politicians who approve abortion legislation should be excommunicated from the Church.

The Church has a very strong stance on abortion, and I do not think it is realistic to be Catholic and pro abortion at the same time- as to do so is very contradictory to the Churches beliefs and teachings.

Clearly it is possible to be Catholic and pro abortion, in the same way that it is possible to belong to any Church and completely disregard its teachings! Then the obvious question is why bother having a faith which you dont believe in?

Most Catholics (over 80%) think that the Church should never, ever change its anti abortion stance in any circumstances whatsoever.

It seems therefore that your statement is not particularly well informed
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Old 12-18-2008, 03:32 PM
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my statement comes from being in a catholic family and having catholic family members be in support of human rights, so fuck off
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:05 PM
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I'm rather sick of "political moves" and crap like that, I wish they would just do what is RIGHT.

Me too. But people who always "do what is right" probably aren't going into politics.
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Old 12-18-2008, 04:47 PM
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I can never understand people who get upset over this kind of thing...

...the naivety of some people is surreal
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