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  #1 (permalink)  
Old 10-18-2011, 05:22 PM
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EXPRESS FR international delivery issue (Chronopost)

Sold an item to FRANCE-story is

Buyer is being charged a near $40 delivery fee for an express flat rate item I shipped When I track the package it states attempted delivery, then something about it being held at the CHRONOPOST depot because addressee requested pick up (which he did not) states they attempted to deliver ONE time, but buyer lives in an apartment bldg with a concierge who could not accept package because he is not authorized to pay the fees.

He kept telling me that he has received numerous packages from the US with no problems, but I found out that none of them were EXPRESS. I did mark as a gift, but did not devalue the item. He is thinking that with the cost of the item $78 and the cost of shipping it exceeded the limits and now they want to charge a fee. NO where did I state in my listing he would be responsible for any delivery fees etc. but is that necessary? I have asked him several times if he has CALLED them and talked to a supervisor but he has not. The depot is apparently in a Paris suburb far from his home-too far to drive I guess he is saying. I just do not understand why they would only attempt one delivery? I actually shipped this item for a friend, and used EXPRESS to cover my butt because I just got screwed on a package to Russia that never showed. Ever since I posted recently about another package taking about 6 weeks to Australia I have insured with shipcover or U-Pic. I shipped EXPRESS to make darn sure it got there especially since it is not my item. Now I am holding out on paying my friend because I do not want to get screwed. Buyer has stated several times that it is so unfair but obviously he has to pay so I am thinking he won't try to dispute this, but I am still nervous about it. Question-

What if he just does not pick up the package? Will they send it back and I have to pay some crazy fee? Will it make it back? Will I be SOL on the dispute even though it is showing that it made it there but he never picked it up. I have all copies of correspondence through eBay messages where he is basically tripping on the fee-I guess I do not blame him. But he seems to think it is my fault and he is upset it was Express and not Airmail 1st class-Although the invoice STATED express when he paid, so it is not like I changed it last minute. Has anyone been in this situation and had to deal with Chronopost? I read some not so nice comments about them online when I researched them. In all honesty it would not matter as much were it my item, but being that it is not it is kinda stressing me out. I almost don't want to do favors for anyone anymore and sell their items...but its the loan officer at my credit union, and well, she has hooked us up!

Anyway, any advice, thoughts etc. would be great. Thank you!
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Old 10-18-2011, 05:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marley-rocks View Post
But he seems to think it is my fault and he is upset it was Express and not Airmail 1st class
He's upset because if you had sent it First Class then he would have had a free item by now since there is no tracking at all.

The item will be returned to you if he doesn't go pick it up. Sometimes this process takes weeks/months. (I have received Express packages back like 3 months after I sent it) If, by the time it gets back to you it has been more then 45 days (and he has not already filed a claim), I would just refund him less the Express ship cost. That way you aren't out anything.

But he may very well file a claim before the 45 days and then you will have to refund him everything since it doesn't show delivered.
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Old 10-18-2011, 11:32 PM
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I would suggest taking the time to actually learn how to ship internationally before doing so in the future. Maybe stick with domestic shipments until you do.

Marking an item as a gift or devaluing it is illegal. You (the seller) are the 1 who will be responsible for that package and you (the seller) will be the 1 who will be punished if you get caught. Now I am sure you would love to pay a huge fine or get tossed in pound me in the ass federal prison but I would recommend against it. Simple solution in this case is NOT devaluing packages and NOT marking them as a gift. You are a seller, your items are merchandise. These buyers are NOT your friends, you do NOT know them, it is NOT their fuckin birthday. They do NOT deserve any gifts. AT ALL.

You should not have to tell the international buyers that they will be responsible to follow the laws in their own countries when they import items, but some people are just idiots. Your buyer is well aware of the customs laws in their country as they have done everything they can to evade them. If it was the buyer who was fined and tossed in jail when they requested that the item be marked as a gift and devalued I can guarantee they would stop doing so. They would either suck it up and pay the fees or stop buying stuff internationally.

That being said eBay has a policy that states you need to tell the international buyers they that will have to pay the fees. If you run a search in the ebay help section you can find it. IMO you should tell the buyers regardless. Tell em straight up they are going to have to pay a fucking fee if that is what their country requires. If they don't like it they can lump it! And they should also stop using all that stuff those fees pay for. Next time their house is burning down they should not call the fire department since that crap is paid for with their tax dollars. Same with their "free" healthcare which is actually just paid for with taxes.


The package will come back to you IF you selected that option when you filled out the customs forms. You will NOT be charged any additional fees.

Other than the standard problems with any shipping service there is nothing wrong with chronopost. Shipped MANY packages to France via express mail. They all go through chronopost. Other than buyers not picking them up because they don't want to pay customs fees I have never had an issue. I wouldn't even call that an issue anyways. A buyer not wanting to pay customs fees is an issue with the buyer not the shipping company who is just obeying the law.


As far as ebay will be concerned your package did not get delivered if (or most likely when) the buyer files a dispute in this case you will be out the shipping cost for the item. Maybe in 3+ weeks you will get the item back and be able to sell it.

Personally I would tell your buyer that he needs to go pick up the package and pay the fees. They are not part of the shipping cost and it is the law in the country where he lives. It is not a requirement that you mark the item as a gift, ship it 1st class or do anything else to help him avoid these fees.
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Old 10-19-2011, 08:11 AM
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Wow…a bit violent of a response to the op. Not like I care at all about this issue but as an independent observer, no wonder AF is losing members rapidly when mods respond to a question like this.


Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurehoard View Post
I would suggest taking the time to actually learn how to ship internationally before doing so in the future. Maybe stick with domestic shipments until you do.

Marking an item as a gift or devaluing it is illegal. You (the seller) are the 1 who will be responsible for that package and you (the seller) will be the 1 who will be punished if you get caught. Now I am sure you would love to pay a huge fine or get tossed in pound me in the ass federal prison but I would recommend against it. Simple solution in this case is NOT devaluing packages and NOT marking them as a gift. You are a seller, your items are merchandise. These buyers are NOT your friends, you do NOT know them, it is NOT their fuckin birthday. They do NOT deserve any gifts. AT ALL.

You should not have to tell the international buyers that they will be responsible to follow the laws in their own countries when they import items, but some people are just idiots. Your buyer is well aware of the customs laws in their country as they have done everything they can to evade them. If it was the buyer who was fined and tossed in jail when they requested that the item be marked as a gift and devalued I can guarantee they would stop doing so. They would either suck it up and pay the fees or stop buying stuff internationally.

That being said eBay has a policy that states you need to tell the international buyers they that will have to pay the fees. If you run a search in the ebay help section you can find it. IMO you should tell the buyers regardless. Tell em straight up they are going to have to pay a fucking fee if that is what their country requires. If they don't like it they can lump it! And they should also stop using all that stuff those fees pay for. Next time their house is burning down they should not call the fire department since that crap is paid for with their tax dollars. Same with their "free" healthcare which is actually just paid for with taxes.


The package will come back to you IF you selected that option when you filled out the customs forms. You will NOT be charged any additional fees.

Other than the standard problems with any shipping service there is nothing wrong with chronopost. Shipped MANY packages to France via express mail. They all go through chronopost. Other than buyers not picking them up because they don't want to pay customs fees I have never had an issue. I wouldn't even call that an issue anyways. A buyer not wanting to pay customs fees is an issue with the buyer not the shipping company who is just obeying the law.


As far as ebay will be concerned your package did not get delivered if (or most likely when) the buyer files a dispute in this case you will be out the shipping cost for the item. Maybe in 3+ weeks you will get the item back and be able to sell it.

Personally I would tell your buyer that he needs to go pick up the package and pay the fees. They are not part of the shipping cost and it is the law in the country where he lives. It is not a requirement that you mark the item as a gift, ship it 1st class or do anything else to help him avoid these fees.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:14 PM
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Ummm.. OK Thanks I think. I feel I should reply, but I kinda do not think I need to explain or defend myself-however....

I know how to ship internationally, I do have 3000 plus feedback. Ya, I marked as a gift and that is wrong I screwed up. I did NOT devalue also. uh...I did not need a lashing, but appreciate all you said that was useful and informative. Not sure why you got so pissed off, it is one package and I do not make a habit of shipping that way. My screw up, not yours, I am the one who has to deal with the consequences. I did mark return to sender, so one day I suppose it will come my way.

Thanks Amber for the info

Jeangirl, you read my mind.
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:23 PM
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I think Mike is just frustrated because we tell everyone so often here the importance of never marking as a gift or devaluing an item yet people, even experienced sellers, keep doing it. (I too had to learn my lesson the hard way when I thought I was being 'nice' and helping out an AF member and she screwed me out of $200). I refuse to do it anymore, even if it means losing a sale.

I agree with Mike that the buyer definitely knows he is responsible and it is really shady of him. He shouldn't be buying from the US if he is not willing to pay his countries taxes/duties. He is probably used to getting lucky with other packages that have slipped through without fees. But he needs to suck it up and pay. Unfortunately, there is no way to force him to do this.

Mike, I haz some Xanex if you need it
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by **fancy**pants** View Post
I think Mike is just frustrated because we tell everyone so often here the importance of never marking as a gift or devaluing an item yet people, even experienced sellers, keep doing it. (I too had to learn my lesson the hard way when I thought I was being 'nice' and helping out an AF member and she screwed me out of $200). I refuse to do it anymore, even if it means losing a sale.

I agree with Mike that the buyer definitely knows he is responsible and it is really shady of him. He shouldn't be buying from the US if he is not willing to pay his countries taxes/duties. He is probably used to getting lucky with other packages that have slipped through without fees. But he needs to suck it up and pay. Unfortunately, there is no way to force him to do this.

Mike, I haz some Xanex if you need it
Thanks Amber, I do understand, and it is frustrating, obviously more for the seller. Just was wowed by Mikes post. Have not been yelled at or had so many F bombs flung my way in a long time.

Wondering if you happen to know how long they will hold the package before they send it back to me?
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Old 10-19-2011, 01:45 PM
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I think he was more just venting in general (not yelling specifically at you). But I certainly don't want to speak for him.

It will vary on how long they hold it and how long it takes to ship back. I believe they hold it for around 3 weeks and if the buyer doesn't pick it up they ship it back. But even though it is 'Express Mail' on the way there, it doesn't get back that quickly. I've had them take several weeks to get back.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:06 PM
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Well besides the fact that we have been over this a million times, it is just honestly annoying to have sellers marking items as gifts and devaluing them. It hurts legitimate sellers businesses when other sellers choose to help buyers commit customs fraud. If you commit customs fraud then the buyer will expect it from other sellers. This causes sellers who try to run a legitimate business that follows the law to loose business and money. Either because buyers do not buy the items from sellers who ship items w/ out committing fraud or in your case because buyers refuse the pick the item up. I get at least 1 package back every month from a buyer who thinks I should have marked it as a gift and they should not have to pay customs. Each time I get 1 of these packages back it wastes my time and costs me money.





As far as my response being the reason that mods and members are leaving AF Please give it up. I have helped probably tens of thousands of people with various issues from authenticity, ebay + paypal + shipping help, put in 1000++++ hours on various guides for the forum to use, contributed numerous photos to the guides, helped people recover tens of thousands of $$$$$ when they purchased fakes, let forum members crash at my places for their benefit, employed several members of AF and I could go on and on.



For your question about how long it will take for the package to come back it is hard to say. I had packages arrive back with in a few weeks. Sometimes they take a few months. Sometimes they never come back.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:09 PM
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Also for the record that was only 2 Fbombs 1 when referring to the buyer and 1 referring to a custom fees. Neither were directed at you.
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Old 10-19-2011, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treasurehoard View Post
If you commit customs fraud then the buyer will expect it from other sellers.


I agree here so much. I hear very often from ebayers (and also AFers) that other people are willing to do it so why can't I. I do lose sales from it. It is very frustrating.

Quote:
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You are the shit. And I cannot thank you enough for that, by the way.
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